Review of the New DiOrio Firing Pin

Will your new action function with Jewell, Bix & Andy and Flavio Fare' triggers?

Does your new action envision an adjustable trigger hangar and the ability to function with Jewell, Bix & Andy and Flavio Fare' triggers? Mr. Calfee is the expert on triggers, not I, but with a vertical sear it is not obvious to me how the most popular triggers will function. Or..is a trigger part of your "fire control" system? Lawrence Beasley
 
Lawrence Beasley said:
Does your new action envision an adjustable trigger hangar and the ability to function with Jewell, Bix & Andy and Flavio Fare' triggers? Mr. Calfee is the expert on triggers, not I, but with a vertical sear it is not obvious to me how the most popular triggers will function. Or..is a trigger part of your "fire control" system? Lawrence Beasley
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Yes, but with a vertical sear, not the 60 degree that you typically see in Remington style triggers.

Forgive me, I didn't not absorb the total of your questions, so I'm editing this post to provide further detail and answer your remaining questions.

I did not incorporate an adjustable trigger hanger, but instead have a different way of controlling energy in the fire control system. Everyone seems to be more concerned about some number equating to trigger fall and never talk about the amount of energy required to consistently indent the case head to some depth. Understanding the hugely varied difference in case hardness from lot to lot and across different brands and what the ammo companies like to see for indentation depth, energy can be consistently applied at a greater range than that provided by an adjustable trigger hanger.

I can supply a 60 degree cocking piece or a trigger (as part of the fire control system) with a vertical sear.

MB
 
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RAVAGE88 said:
Yes, but with a vertical sear, not the 60 degree that you typically see in Remington style triggers.

MB
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As normal I’m confused. Do you mean you have your own trigger or the rem pattern triggers will work with your dear?
A picture would be worth a thousand words.
TKH
 
Tony K Harper said:
As normal I’m confused. Do you mean you have your own trigger or the rem pattern triggers will work with your dear?
A picture would be worth a thousand words.
TKH
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Ultimately, Remington triggers work in all my actions, but I have to either supply the action with a 60 degree cocking piece or provide the action complete with a trigger and fire control set up for vertical sear. I've been working with numerous trigger manufacturers that will be supplying triggers to me with vertical sears and have been shooting prototypes for over a year.

The reason the 60 degree sear is not a good solution is the sliding moment of force created by some amount of spring pressure that raises the back of the bolt body off axis to the receiver bore (a cantilevering event along the length of the bolt assembly). The vertical sear solution is without the sliding force and the bolt body remains on-axis with the receiver bore.

MB
 
RAVAGE88 said:
Ultimately, Remington triggers work in all my actions, but I have to either supply the action with a 60 degree cocking piece or provide the action complete with a trigger and fire control set up for vertical sear. I've been working with numerous trigger manufacturers that will be supplying triggers to me with vertical sears and have been shooting prototypes for over a year.

The reason the 60 degree sear is not a good solution is the sliding moment of force created by some amount of spring pressure that raises the back of the bolt body off axis to the receiver bore (a cantilevering event along the length of the bolt assembly). The vertical sear solution is without the sliding force and the bolt body remains on-axis with the receiver bore.

MB
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I understand what you are saying. A few years ago I spend a lot of time and money trying to get a 90 degree trigger to work satisfactory but never was successful. Every way I tried wasn’t as good as the Ffs or Bix. Hopefully you do better. Keep us informed as I’m sure there is a solution just don’t know how to get there.
TKH
 
Tony K Harper said:
I understand what you are saying. A few years ago I spend a lot of time and money trying to get a 90 degree trigger to work satisfactory but never was successful. Every way I tried wasn’t as good as the Ffs or Bix. Hopefully you do better. Keep us informed as I’m sure there is a solution just don’t know how to get there.
TKH
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Whose vertical sear trigger were you working with?

MB
 
RAVAGE88 said:
Don't know him. Been shooting mine for over a year, working great.

MB
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John's trigger worked, and they could be set light, but in my case of competing with numerous rifles each of the 90 degree triggers seemed to have a personality (not a good thing).

Bixs and FFs can be adjusted to have the same feel from rifle to rifle. It is not just a weight of pull issue, it is a combination of pull, break, and feel.

The FFs I'm using now are adjusted so you can't tell which rifle you are shooting by the way the trigger reacts.

I never reached this point with the 90 degree triggers. I know the theory of why they should be better, but the theory never came through in the real world of competition.

This is not to say yours triggers don't work, but in all honesty I would have to see them, and shoot them to be convinced.

This is not something one can do with a simple try or two. Triggers have to be proven under the stress of competition, then the differences come to light.

TKH
 
Tony K Harper said:
John's trigger worked, and they could be set light, but in my case of competing with numerous rifles each of the 90 degree triggers seemed to have a personality (not a good thing).

Bixs and FFs can be adjusted to have the same feel from rifle to rifle. It is not just a weight of pull issue, it is a combination of pull, break, and feel.

The FFs I'm using now are adjusted so you can't tell which rifle you are shooting by the way the trigger reacts.

I never reached this point with the 90 degree triggers. I know the theory of why they should be better, but the theory never came through in the real world of competition.

This is not to say yours triggers don't work, but in all honesty I would have to see them, and shoot them to be convinced.

This is not something one can do with a simple try or two. Triggers have to be proven under the stress of competition, then the differences come to light.

TKH
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Very interesting. How much surface contact was there between the face of the cocking piece and sear? Was it a line of contact or full surface contact?

MB
 
RAVAGE88 said:
Very interesting. How much surface contact was there between the face of the cocking piece and sear? Was it a line of contact or full surface contact?

MB
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I don’t know how to anwser your question. It is simply an edge to edge contact. You would have to see the trigger to understand. I’ll sell you one if you are interested.
TKH
 
RAVAGE88 said:
Would you mind posting a pic or emailing a pic to me: mike@vudoogunworks.com

Thanks TKH,
MB
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Here are some pics. No, I will not take them apart but I will sell you any or all of them.

trg1.jpg trg2.jpg trg3.jpg

TKH
 
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Friend LB

Lawrence Beasley said:
What is really the goal for a firing pin to accomplish? We want it to ignite the maximum amount of radial primer compound while delivering as little shock and vibration to the rifle as possible.


Lawrence Beasley
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_______________________________



Friend LB:


I've quoted your opening statement, above.


Because it says it all, perfectly.



This new DiOrio firing pin follows your comments perfectly....


Not only does it strike more priming compound, it does it with less vibration.......


There's no draft behind the face of the pin.......


So it's very easy to drive.......which means less vibration.


To make use of the ability to strike more priming compound, the pin has to be perfectly executed.......not close, but perfectly.


Which this new DiOrio pin is....



DSC00749%20-%20Copy_1.jpg



_____________________



Now.................................



Man, I'm wanting one of these pins for the Baity 6 ignition in my Turbo/Pippin lefty.


But, the firing pin hole through the bolt nose sits about .005" further inboard than the V-3 pin.


There's no way I'd ask Anthony to set up a special jig to do just one pin.


The pin tip has to be in the pin body to gain the perfect alignment with the rim of the case head...


So he can't just furnish a pin only........would be tough to silver solder in place absolutely perfectly......without being lucky...



_______________________



So I've come up with a goofy idea.


I've got some 3/32" annealed drill rod....



I'm going to take a 2 inch long by 1/2" piece of bar stock and drill a .062" hole completely through it while centered up in the lathe.


Next, I'm going to enlarge the hole with a 3/32" drill to a depth that will leave about 3/16" of my 3/32" drill rod sicking out.


I'm then going to epoxy the piece of 3/32" drill rod into my new pin holder....



Once it cures, I'm going to very carefully offset index the pin to the same offset as the pin hole in my Baity 6 ignition.



Then I'm going to face off the part of the pin protruding from my pin holder flush with the face of it.



Then I'm going to center drill my pin holder.....to give me a starting point perfectly centered.


Next I'm going to step drill the centered hole until I reach a drill size the same as the inside radius of the DiOrio pin...


I'm going to drill about .080 " deep.


____________________



Next, I'm going to machine down the OD of the 1/2" bar stock, about .080" deep, till I reach the OD of the outside edge of the DiOrio pin.



Then I'm going to heat the piece of bar stock, insert a small drift in the .062" hole and drive my finished pin out.



Now, I'll still have to silver solder it into my pin body accurately..........but, that's just going to be as it may.


Your friend, Bill Calfee



DSC00822.jpg
 
Bill,

Send the firing pin slide assembly to me and I will replace the pin for you with the crescent shaped tip.

Best Regards, Anthony
 
Friend AD

DiOrioMFG said:
Bill,

Send the firing pin slide assembly to me and I will replace the pin for you with the crescent shaped tip.

Best Regards, Anthony
Click to expand...


_________________________


Friend AD:


Boy, how did I miss this one.......I see you posted this 18 hours ago...


If I'd known this, my Baity 6 pin would have been in the mail yesterday.




AD, the world has come full circle now.



Back in 2011, Leonard Baity, who was producing his Falcon RFBR actions, took time to build 6 ignition systems for Turbo's........his direct competition.



And now today, you, AD, who builds Turbo RFBR actions, are taking time to improve the Baity 6 ignition system.



The pin will be in the mail today......and thank you.



Your friend, BC

__________________________


PS:



It simply blew my mind that Leonard Baity would go out of his way to produce 6 igntion for his competition.

And now the favor is bring returned.



Pioneersincolor-1.jpg
 
One of my friend is also gun fool.I can say serious gun fool.Very handsome machinist also.I told him this new design of 22 LR pin model.And send picture to him. 2 days later he made and change new pin to his Sako Quad RF.
It is good accuracy factory gun.

Now he send me intresting report of his first test shootings.

He shoots to 150 m (165 yd) with his Sako Quad.10 shot groups always.

His good lots of Lapua Center X and Eley Tenex shoots same size groups (nice round ones) as with old factory pin has done before. BUT big change happens with cheaper ammo.CCI Std, TopShot,Norma TAC22 and SK Long Range.

He got dramatically less flyers with those and with SK Long Range no fliers anymore.

Vertical fliers goes down.

Now he is making himself new springs to Sako and because he is gunfool,tests continues.

This is intresting why this "moon pin" makes cheap "flier ammo" so much better?????



BR,

Timo
 
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Friend gun fool Timo:

Timo said:
One of my friend is also gun fool.I can say serious gun fool.Very handsome machinist also.I told him this new design of 22 LR pin model.And send picture to him. 2 days later he made and change new pin to his Sako Quad RF.
It is good accuracy factory gun.

Now he send me intresting report of his first test shootings.

He shoots to 150 m (165 yd) with his Sako Quad.10 shot groups always.

His good lots of Lapua Center X and Eley Tenex shoots same size groups (nice round ones) as with old factory pin has done before. BUT big change happens with cheaper ammo.CCI Std, TopShot,Norma TAC22 and SK Long Range.

He got dramatically less flyers with those and with SK Long Range no fliers anymore.

Vertical fliers goes down.

Now he is making himself new springs to Sako and because he is gunfool,tests continues.

This is intresting why this "moon pin" makes cheap "flier ammo" so much better?????



BR,

Timo
Click to expand...


____________________________


Friend gun fool Timo:



I have my DiOrio crescent firing pin installed in my new MD-PAS pistol, which has given me the opportunity to test the old chisel shape and his new crescent shape against one another.



The bulk of the ammo I've been using will still kill it with either pin......


But........................



The lack of exaggerated flippers with the DiOrio pin just jumps out.......it ain't even close.


Your friend, gun fool BC.......


_________________



PS:


Timo, for this pin shape to be 100% successful, it must be executed perfectly or it is no better than the old chisel shape.



1....The crescent must be exactly the same thickness all across the arc...


2....The face of the pin tip must be perfectly perpendicular to the case head.


3....The outside edge of the crescent must be exactly the same distance from the outside edge of the rim, all the way across its arc.....



In other words, it's a most difficult pin tip design to execute absolutely perfectly.


This is why DiOrio uses EDM technology.


DSC00749%20-%20Copy_1.jpg




Now............................


Here's a biggie about this new pin design:


To take full advantage of the .094" diameter of the firing pin tip, the hole through the nose of the breech bolt must be in the exact perfect location.


To take full advantage, the crescent must be exactly on the center line of the .094" diameter pin.




Timo, "fate" intervened in the design of this new DiOrio crescent pin, when Flash Ebert placed the firing pin hole in the breech bolt nose of his original Turbo actions where he did....


And Anthony DiOrio continued using this same pin hole location when he started producing the Turbo actions.


This might sound "hokey", but, this new DiOrio crescent firing pin was destined, by fate, to happen.....
 
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