Why are MD-PAS RFBR actions still kicking out the majority of the big numbers?

Bill Calfee

Gun Fool
Why are MD-PAS RFBR actions still kicking out the majority of the big numbers?



CYA friends:


Why are MD-PAS RFBR actions still kicking out the majority of the big numbers?


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CYA friends, the world of rimfire accuracy is dominated by MD-PAS ignitioned actions.



It's been this way since 1998.......when the Turbo RFBR action first came on the scene.



A sub question is in order here:


Why can't custom SAP ignitioned RFBR actions get a foot hold in the world of rimfire accuracy?


Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
Why??????????????

Why??????????????





CYA friends, the world of rimfire accuracy is dominated by MD-PAS ignitioned actions.


It's been this way since 1998.......when the Turbo RFBR action first came on the scene.



A sub question is in order here:


Why can't custom SAP ignitioned RFBR actions get a foot hold in the world of rimfire accuracy?


Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
Why??????????????





CYA friends, the world of rimfire accuracy is dominated by MD-PAS ignitioned actions.


It's been this way since 1998.......when the Turbo RFBR action first came on the scene.



A sub question is in order here:


Why can't custom SAP ignitioned RFBR actions get a foot hold in the world of rimfire accuracy?


Your friend, Bill Calfee

Howdy Bill,

The thing that always jumped out at me has been how many times you have posted about your ten round case head penetration tests.

The MD PAS ignitions you have properly blueprinted have run multiple ten round case head penetration tests and had zero (0) variations.

Where can SAP ignition go from there?

There is nowhere to improve................and the challenge is can SAP ignition run ten round case head penetration tests with zero (0) variations?

I have seen arguments about various SAP ignitions and improvements thereon, but I have not seen ten round case head penetration test results with zero (0) variations on SAP actions. If they are out there, please let me know. But so far I have not seen them. I have seen arguments that the ten round case head penetration tests don't really matter. That argument does not seem to come from people who prefer PAS actions.

If one can blueprint ignition so that the firing pin is doing the exact same thing every time with one type of ignition, but not with another, well, why would one want to have a variation in anything to do with ignition?

Consistency has a major role on EVERYTHING in benchrest..............why would one accept variables in something as important as ignition?

Take care,

Greg
 
Friend 404tbang

Howdy Bill,

The thing that always jumped out at me has been how many times you have posted about your ten round case head penetration tests.

The MD PAS ignitions you have properly blueprinted have run multiple ten round case head penetration tests and had zero (0) variations.

Where can SAP ignition go from there?


There is nowhere to improve................and the challenge is can SAP ignition run ten round case head penetration tests with zero (0) variations?

I have seen arguments about various SAP ignitions and improvements thereon, but I have not seen ten round case head penetration test results with zero (0) variations on SAP actions. If they are out there, please let me know. But so far I have not seen them. I have seen arguments that the ten round case head penetration tests don't really matter. That argument does not seem to come from people who prefer PAS actions.

If one can blueprint ignition so that the firing pin is doing the exact same thing every time with one type of ignition, but not with another, well, why would one want to have a variation in anything to do with ignition?

Consistency has a major role on EVERYTHING in benchrest..............why would one accept variables in something as important as ignition?

Take care,

Greg


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Friend 404tbang:


Your comments in bold orange:


All any version of SAP rimfire ignition can possible hope to do, is tie.



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Greg, it's been 100 years now since Winchester put their PAS ignition system in their 52 target rifles.


There's been only one improvement in rimfire ignition since:


That being, when Flash Ebert added momentum dependency to Winchester's PAS ignition when he brought out the Turbo RFBR action.



When well blueprinted MD-PAS ignition is capable of kicking out 10-0 case head penetration runs, there is no place left to go.



Your friend, BC


_________________


PS:


Greg, the need for ignition uniformity is why I'd never start a new build with any form of SAP ignition....

Because no form of SAP ignition is capable of kicking out 10-0 case head penetration runs
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Why can't custom, SAP ignitioned RFBR actions get a foot hold?

Why can't custom, SAP ignitioned RFBR actions get a foot hold?


CYA friends:


After almost 30 years, the best shooting SAP ignitioned RFBR guns, use, now get this, the Suhl action....


I mean, I'm serious......the best shooting SAP RFBR action is the Suhl.





Why can't the custom, SAP ignitioned RFBR actions get a foot hold?


Your friend, Bill Calfee


_____________________


PS:


If a shooter just has to start a new build with a SAP ignition RFBR action, they'd be better off to start with a Suhl, than any of the current custom RFBR actions.

 
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I don't believe that a SAP system can't be improved upon for the sake of consistency. What I've seen, NO ONE has put any effort into the right problem or set of problems in the SAP systems. So, in an effort to proffer a bit of thought, I'll ask this question; what do you see in a SAP system that isn't present in PAS systems?

MB
 
Friend RAVAGE88

I don't believe that a SAP system can't be improved upon for the sake of consistency. What I've seen, NO ONE has put any effort into the right problem or set of problems in the SAP systems. So, in an effort to proffer a bit of thought, I'll ask this question; what do you see in a SAP system that isn't present in PAS systems?

MB


_______________________


Friend RAVAGE88:


I don't believe it's possible to make any form of SAP ignition produce the uniformity/consistency of well blueprinted MD-PAS ignition.


A well blueprinted MD-PAS ignition is capable of producing 10-0 case head penetration runs.....I've done it countless times over the years.


I've never seen any form of SAP ignition produce a single 10-0 case head penetration test run....



What do you think could done to help improve SAP ignition?



Your friend, BC
 


_______________________


Friend RAVAGE88:


I don't believe it's possible to make any form of SAP ignition produce the uniformity/consistency of well blueprinted MD-PAS ignition.


A well blueprinted MD-PAS ignition is capable of producing 10-0 case head penetration runs.....I've done it countless times over the years.


I've never seen any form of SAP ignition produce a single 10-0 case head penetration test run....



What do you think could done to help improve SAP ignition?



Your friend, BC

Hi BC,
There was a time I was in total agreement with you, but I believe, from the latest test data, there may now be a SAP system that performs as well as the finely blueprinted PAS. I've seen you post that you're bored, and I get it, I get there easily myself without the right challenges. I think we should talk about this SAP thing....

MB
 
Friend RAVAGE88

Hi BC,
There was a time I was in total agreement with you, but I believe, from the latest test data, there may now be a SAP system that performs as well as the finely blueprinted PAS. I've seen you post that you're bored, and I get it, I get there easily myself without the right challenges. I think we should talk about this SAP thing....

MB



_______________________________


Friend RAVAGE88:



Please share your data confirming there's a well blueprinted SAP ignition system with the uniformity of well blueprinted MD-PAS systems.


I look forward to it, as I know the rest of the folks here at CYA do.



You can post pictures through the software here at the site, or, from outside sources like I do at from Photobucket.


I'll open them for you if you use the sites software...



Thank you in advance, your friend, BC
 
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