Playing with this V-3

Playing with this V-3


CYA friends:


We're in an interesting new world with this new V-3.

We used to search for higher and higher rate springs.......


With this thing being so beautifully free, I'm now searching for smaller and smaller rate springs.


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This is for Az_Speed, and other creative folks who do their own work, or would like to.


The pin of the V-3 is hard.....which means it's wear proof.


And I used to have to grind pins like this...


But this time I reduced this pin tip using the two diamond needle files Jeff Patterson gave me...


And it was so easy, and so much more accurate than the way I used to have to grind hard pins..


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I've got more I want to say.......


Too much for right now, as I've got something I have to do this afternoon...


But I'll get back to it.....


Again, this unbelievably free V-3 is a whole new world to explore.


There's a lot that I'm liking about this action........


But this "free" thing is one of the most impressive....it's opened up some new doors...


Your friend, Bill Calfee

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You know, I ain't used to fancy tools....like these diamond needle files...

I have fought hand grinding hard pin tips for years....

And these diamond needle files made it so easy, and accurate...










Unless I'm mistaken, this is the width the V-3 will come standard with now.....or very close to it.

It's hard to imagine

It's hard to imagine


CYA friends:


Here's a picture.


I had shortened a Pepper spring so that there was no pre-load when this V-3 was de-cocked.

There was just enough to keep the components together.....

I could easily pull the locking lugs away from the breech bolt body with my fingers, easily.


So all the loading the spring had, with the action at battery, was the .216" of pin travel length, plus probably .005" to maybe .010", max.


And it was driving that .050" pin.



But, it can't be a good idea to have a spring system that has no pre-load.


This would be working on the extreme soft end of the spring's rate....starting from zero.


So things like a little grease, or a little grease and cold weather combined, would have to affect the ability of a spring to drive consistently, if it were starting form dead relaxed, with only .220" of loading when at battery.

I would think?



Therefore, I added one coil back to the Pepper spring that I'm using to drive this .033" width pin tip.


It may not have been necessary, but, I feel more comfortable with this additional pre-load.



Cocking is very easy.


And I'm just under .010" off my mechanical stop......which I can live with.


____________________


CYA friends, this V-3 is a different world than I'm used to.


There's a lot of TCA's using the full Pepper spring.


And this V-3 is doing this with four coils removed from the Pepper.


This is hard to imagine.




One other thing:


This "free" business.......

The various clearances on this action are extremely close.

Which makes how "free" this thing is even more impressive.


In other words, this thing isn't "free" by just having a bunch of sloppy clearances.

Not at all.....


____________________________


This is for 404tbang:


Now, this is not a true 10 round case head penetration test, but...


After I got the pin tip narrowed down to .033", and made up the Pepper with an extra coil, I fired 10 rounds in my bucket.


Again, this isn't the true way to run a 10 round case head penetration test, and it was just too cold in the shop to stay out any longer and do it properly.


But, all 10 rounds measured, as close as I could determine with frozen fingers, the exact same, just under .010" off my mechanical stop.


By the way, I narrowed the pin tip in the house, in warmth.....

I did shorten the Pepper in the cold shop.


So anyway, yes, this thing is capable of producing 10-0 case head penetration runs, I have absolutely no doubt.



Your friend, BC

________________________


CYA friends, this "free" business has captured my imagination as much as anything else about this V-3.

I've worked like a dog in the past to get some actions this free...


And this thing came this way as a gift......nothing to do....

Will they all be like this?

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.090"- .100" of de-cocked pre-load now

.090"- .100" of de-cocked pre-load now


CYA friends:


First of all, when Anthony DiOrio volunteered to send me one of his new V-3's, all he asked for were my thoughts, and possible suggestions.

He didn't request that I keep everything private between him, Tom Wilkinson and myself...


CYA is about advancing rimfire accuracy.


Therefore, and I'm sure he knew this before he sent me the action, I decided to share any thoughts, good or bad, about this new V-3 with you folks here on CYA.


Which I've been doing.


I have absolutely no doubt that Anthony DiOrio intends to produce the closes thing to a "barrel ready" action as is humanly possible.


Having written the above statement, I have to repeats this:


There is no such thing as a "blueprint proof" RFBR action.


And there's no way I'd ever try to make anyone believe otherwise, and I fully suspect that Anthony DiOrio wouldn't either.

And I know Tom Wilkinson most certainly wouldn't either.


One of the beauties of this V-3, is that Anthony has designed it so it can easily be blueprinted, should that be necessary.



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Anthony DiOrio most certainly isn't going to use cut down Pepper springs in his new V-3.


What I've been doing, is trying to determine the best way to make use of this actions amazing freeness, and, the ability to have up to .225" of firing pin travel.


In my mind, I'm close to accomplishing this, at least to my satisfaction.


1. Right now I have .216" of firing pin travel.

2. My firing pin tip is .033" in width.

3. And I've got the Pepper spring cut so that I have .090"-.100" of firing pin spring pre-load, when the action is de-cocked.


(An unaltered Pepper has about .360"-.375" of pre-load in the de-cocked position.)


4. Bolt lift is amazingly easy.


5. And I'm running just under .010" off my mechanical FP stop.....which is very doable.


6. And, although it was a live fire round measured test, I kicked out what is basically a 10-0 case head penetration test run..

Again, it was a live fire test, which is not the correct way to run this test....but it does have some value.



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I'm going to determine, as close as I can, exactly what the "at battery" length rate this cut down Pepper actually is, and relay that information to Anthony.

Because I'm very comfortable with where I'm at now.



Of course what Anthony does with this information is strictly up to him.

My suggestions are just that, suggestions.


Your friend, Bill Calfee

______________________


I'm comfortable right here.

preload

I really like the idea of small amount of pre-load at installed. I think the further you can be from coil bind the better. If it has minimal amount of preload to keep it together and produce enough pressure at cocked would be the best. The only problem I see is the springs we have available and what material they are made out of. A person will have to figure free length after cycling it until it is settled. A spring of a fairly standard length after 6 months use will loose .100"+ free length in our X-90 and I feel that is very excessive. A few years back, the valve springs I started using were head and shoulders better than any spring I had ever used and by far the most consistent across the board. It was something in the material or heat treat they were made from but they utilized smaller wire diameter and less coils but remained the same OD and very close to the rate of the hard fought for good springs of before. After many many uses they always returned to the same free lengths, and remained the same rates at installed heights. It really changed my opinion of what a good spring should do.

Todd

friend TE

Todd Earhart said:

I really like the idea of small amount of pre-load at installed. I think the further you can be from coil bind the better. If it has minimal amount of preload to keep it together and produce enough pressure at cocked would be the best. The only problem I see is the springs we have available and what material they are made out of. A person will have to figure free length after cycling it until it is settled. A spring of a fairly standard length after 6 months use will loose .100"+ free length in our X-90 and I feel that is very excessive. A few years back, the valve springs I started using were head and shoulders better than any spring I had ever used and by far the most consistent across the board. It was something in the material or heat treat they were made from but they utilized smaller wire diameter and less coils but remained the same OD and very close to the rate of the hard fought for good springs of before. After many many uses they always returned to the same free lengths, and remained the same rates at installed heights. It really changed my opinion of what a good spring should do.

Todd

Click to expand...

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Friend TE:


The Pepper, when installed full length, has about .375" of pre-load in the un-cocked position.


This shortened Pepper has between .090"-.100" of pre-load, un-cocked.


Yet because of the freeness of this V-3, plus the .216" pin travel, I'm driving this .033" pin width as well as a full length Pepper will drive a similar pin in most all other TCA's.


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So with only about 25% of the un-cocked pre-load, this spring should set 75% less, and last several times longer.


Although we don't know that for sure, yet.


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Friend TE, I can't emphasize enough how impressed I am with the freeness of this thing.


And then on top of this wonderful freeness, we have up to .215"-.225" of pin travel to work with, depending on which trigger is used.



This V-3 has opened up new doors to be explored.


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TE, if I cut a Pepper down like I have this one, and installed it in 95% of the TCA's in the world, that were trying to drive a .033" wide footprint, most of them would have failures to fire.


We're in uncharted waters here.....


I still can't believe I'm seeing what I am.


Your friend, BC

Bill Calfee said:

It's hard to imagine


CYA friends:


Here's a picture.


I had shortened a Pepper spring so that there was no pre-load when this V-3 was de-cocked.

There was just enough to keep the components together.....

I could easily pull the locking lugs away from the breech bolt body with my fingers, easily.


So all the loading the spring had, with the action at battery, was the .216" of pin travel length, plus probably .005" to maybe .010", max.


And it was driving that .050" pin.



But, it can't be a good idea to have a spring system that has no pre-load.


This would be working on the extreme soft end of the spring's rate....starting from zero.


So things like a little grease, or a little grease and cold weather combined, would have to affect the ability of a spring to drive consistently, if it were starting form dead relaxed, with only .220" of loading when at battery.

I would think?



Therefore, I added one coil back to the Pepper spring that I'm using to drive this .033" width pin tip.


It may not have been necessary, but, I feel more comfortable with this additional pre-load.



Cocking is very easy.


And I'm just under .010" off my mechanical stop......which I can live with.


____________________


CYA friends, this V-3 is a different world than I'm used to.


There's a lot of TCA's using the full Pepper spring.


And this V-3 is doing this with four coils removed from the Pepper.


This is hard to imagine.




One other thing:


This "free" business.......

The various clearances on this action are extremely close.

Which makes how "free" this thing is even more impressive.


In other words, this thing isn't "free" by just having a bunch of sloppy clearances.

Not at all.....


____________________________


This is for 404tbang:


Now, this is not a true 10 round case head penetration test, but...


After I got the pin tip narrowed down to .033", and made up the Pepper with an extra coil, I fired 10 rounds in my bucket.


Again, this isn't the true way to run a 10 round case head penetration test, and it was just too cold in the shop to stay out any longer and do it properly.


But, all 10 rounds measured, as close as I could determine with frozen fingers, the exact same, just under .010" off my mechanical stop.


By the way, I narrowed the pin tip in the house, in warmth.....

I did shorten the Pepper in the cold shop.


So anyway, yes, this thing is capable of producing 10-0 case head penetration runs, I have absolutely no doubt.



Your friend, BC

________________________


CYA friends, this "free" business has captured my imagination as much as anything else about this V-3.

I've worked like a dog in the past to get some actions this free...


And this thing came this way as a gift......nothing to do....

Will they all be like this?

_______________________________

Click to expand...

Howdy Bill,
Thanks for the 10 round case head penetration info!

Out of curiousity........would it not be beneficial to leave the pin tip at .050? To me it looks like a monster hit, and, it would seem easier to get the soft ignition you like with the wider tip. It's still well clear of your mechanical stop and seems to be easy to achieve excellent ignition with a variety of firing pin strengths and lengths.

What are the strengths and weaknesses of a .050 pin tip vs a .033 pin tip?

Take care,

Greg

Friend 404tbang

404tbang said:

Howdy Bill,
Thanks for the 10 round case head penetration info!

Out of curiousity........would it not be beneficial to leave the pin tip at .050? To me it looks like a monster hit, and, it would seem easier to get the soft ignition you like with the wider tip. It's still well clear of your mechanical stop and seems to be easy to achieve excellent ignition with a variety of firing pin strengths and lengths.

What are the strengths and weaknesses of a .050 pin tip vs a .033 pin tip?

Take care,

Greg

Click to expand...

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Friend 404tbang:


We now have a RFBR action that is free enough, and with enough firing pin travel, to explore those strengths and weaknesses...


We have never had this opportunity before.


We do now.


Your friend, BC