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Thread: Free, plus .216" firing pin travel equals.....

  1. #1

    Free, plus .216" firing pin travel equals.....

    Free, plus .216" firing pin travel, plus the simplicity of PAS ignition, equals.....


    CYA friends:

    PAS rimfire ignition is fascinating in its simplicity.


    Just out of curiosity, today I took a Pepper spring and cut it down little by little until it was just long enough to tie the ignition system together on this new V-3, and no more.


    Actually on my first attempt, I went slightly too short which left some play in the ignition system.

    I picked up a few thousandths more bolt handle play in the de-cocked position.

    On my second attempt I got exactly what I was after.

    ______________________________

    Here's a picture:

    It shows a full length Pepper spring.

    The Wilkinson spring that came with my V-3.

    The tiny V-2 spring.

    And then the shortened Pepper spring.

    ____________________________________



    ___________________________



    Anyway, I then fired three rounds in my bucket....

    Comments:


    Talk about easy bolt opening......


    And then the mind boggling thing:

    I'm only slightly over .011" off my mechanical stop.....

    And this is still with the .050" wide footprint.


    _________________________________




    ________________________


    CYA friends:

    Can you imagine the possibilities when driving a .040" wide footprint, or a .030" wide footprint, or a more traditional width footprint?


    This is what happens when we combine total ignition freedom plus .216" firing pin travel along with the simplistic PAS ignition system.


    Your friend, Bill Calfee


    ___________________


    PS:

    CYA friends:

    I want you to fully understand the implications of what you're seeing here, please.

    There is no "pre-load" on this shortened Pepper spring, while the breech bolt is de-cocked.

    This Pepper spring is only long enough to "just barely" tie the ignition components together.


    What you're seeing is simply mind blowing....that footprint is .050" wide.
    Last edited by Bill Calfee; 1 Week Ago at 10:00 PM.

  2. #2

    I'm discovering the limits.......

    I'm discovering the limits.......


    CYA friends:


    When I had the discussion about a new MD-PAS triple with Anthony DiOrio a few months ago, I advised him I didn't want any compensation for what little I could contribute.


    But Anthony decided to send me one of these new V-3's and asked for my input, along with Tom Wilkinson's.


    Both Tom and I have given Anthony some of our thoughts.

    ____________________________



    I had Jeff Patterson come by to help me open the package with this new V-3, and Jeff and I looked at it initially, together.


    And we were both impressed.........without having explored it in detail.


    The one thing Jeff and I did see together, was the result of the "free" test that I ran....


    Which was mind boggling, since very few new actions are "free" without having to do blueprinting, some a lot of blueprinting.



    And then when Tom Wilkinson ran the "free" test on his, and found the same result, that is truly mind boggling.


    Will they all be this way?



    _________________________



    Anyway, since I've gotten into this new V-3 deeper, I've started to discover some interesting characteristics that it has.



    And what I'm finding, is that it's a creative schmidts dream, or a creative individual who does their own schmidt work.


    If things go as I believe they will, there will be .050" of adjustment in the positioning of the trigger hanger...


    And here's what separates this design from every other design I've ever seen:


    You can have .175" of firing pin travel, with easy bolt closing, or up to .225" of firing pin travel with easy bolt closing.


    Or any place in between, with easy bolt closing.


    On any other action I've ever seen, if you move the trigger back too far, trying to obtain extra pin travel, you won't be a be able to close the breech bolt without extreme difficulty.



    Not on this V-3.......you have easy bolt closing throughout the entire range from .175" to .225" of firing pin travel.



    I've said this before; MD-PAS actions have dominated the Big National events for the past 20 years, with a max of about .175" of firing pin travel.



    This new V-3 starts with .175" of pin travel, then on up to .225" of pin travel to spearment with.


    CYA friends, please keep something in mind here:

    This is a short bolt lift action, which means the cocking ramp angle is steeper than a 90 degree bolt lift action, which means cocking has to be more difficult, that's just the nature of the beast.


    But, when one can drive a .050" wide footprint, with a cut down spring with no pre-load, can you imagine how well this thing will drive a more conventional width pin, and the absolute ease of cocking that can be had as a bonus!




    _______________________________



    This "free" thing is so important.


    CYA friends, when you can cut down a spring to the point that it barely holds the ignition parts together, which means when you cock the breech bolt you're starting without any pre-load on that spring..........


    And then that cut down spring can drive a .050" wide footprint like in this picture.........


    Man, that takes component freedom of the highest order....


    More later......

    Your friend, BC
    _______________________________



  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calfee View Post
    I'm discovering the limits.......


    CYA friends:


    When I had the discussion about a new MD-PAS triple with Anthony DiOrio a few months ago, I advised him I didn't want any compensation for what little I could contribute.


    But Anthony decided to send me one of these new V-3's and asked for my input, along with Tom Wilkinson's.


    Both Tom and I have given Anthony some of our thoughts.

    ____________________________



    I had Jeff Patterson come by to help me open the package with this new V-3, and Jeff and I looked at it initially, together.


    And we were both impressed.........without having explored it in detail.


    The one thing Jeff and I did see together, was the result of the "free" test that I ran....


    Which was mind boggling, since very few new actions are "free" without having to do blueprinting, some a lot of blueprinting.



    And then when Tom Wilkinson ran the "free" test on his, and found the same result, that is truly mind boggling.


    Will they all be this way?



    _________________________



    Anyway, since I've gotten into this new V-3 deeper, I've started to discover some interesting characteristics that it has.



    And what I'm finding, is that it's a creative schmidts dream, or a creative individual who does their own schmidt work.


    If things go as I believe they will, there will be .050" of adjustment in the positioning of the trigger hanger...


    And here's what separates this design from every other design I've ever seen:


    You can have .175" of firing pin travel, with easy bolt closing, or up to .225" of firing pin travel with easy bolt closing.


    Or any place in between, with easy bolt closing.


    On any other action I've ever seen, if you move the trigger back too far, trying to obtain extra pin travel, you won't be a be able to close the breech bolt without extreme difficulty.



    Not on this V-3.......you have easy bolt closing throughout the entire range from .175" to .225" of firing pin travel.



    I've said this before; MD-PAS actions have dominated the Big National events for the past 20 years, with a max of about .175" of firing pin travel.



    This new V-3 starts with .175" of pin travel, then on up to .225" of pin travel to spearment with.


    CYA friends, please keep something in mind here:

    This is a short bolt lift action, which means the cocking ramp angle is steeper than a 90 degree bolt lift action, which means cocking has to be more difficult, that's just the nature of the beast.


    But, when one can drive a .050" wide footprint, with a cut down spring with no pre-load, can you imagine how well this thing will drive a more conventional width pin, and the absolute ease of cocking that can be had as a bonus!




    _______________________________



    This "free" thing is so important.


    CYA friends, when you can cut down a spring to the point that it barely holds the ignition parts together, which means when you cock the breech bolt you're starting without any pre-load on that spring..........


    And then that cut down spring can drive a .050" wide footprint like in this picture.........


    Man, that takes component freedom of the highest order....


    More later......

    Your friend, BC
    _______________________________



    Howdy Bill,
    Interesting reading, thank you for posting it all. Have you run any ten round penetration tests yet? Would it matter which spring you used?

    Take care,

    Greg


    PS: Check your email when you get a chance, please.
    Last edited by 404tbang; 1 Week Ago at 06:12 PM.

  4. #4

    Friend 404tbang

    Friend 404tbang


    If you have ever noticed, when I speak about MD-PAS ignition being able to kick out 10-0 case head penetration runs, I've always prefaced that comment with, "a well blueprinted MD-PAS action".

    Every MD-PAS action I got 10-0 runs with had been blueprinted "free" just like these new V-3's that Tom Wilkinson and I received.


    No, I have not run a 10-0 test yet, but, I would be totally shocked if it wouldn't kick out 10-0 runs, since it is so unbelievably "free".


    _________________________


    I'm getting ready to spearment some more with this V-3.


    I've already shot it with the .050" wide footprint.......and it shot killer......


    But, I have to know what this V-3 will do with a more traditional width footprint.


    The footprint of the spearment that I sent to the barn last year, that Robert Oates kicked out that amazing 17X PSL card with, using just 29 rounds, has a footprint width of about .033".


    Therefore I'm going to narrow this V-3 down to between .030" and .035"......



    Friend 404tbang, my gut is telling me, that I can drive this size footprint to the depth I want, staying off the mechanical stop the .010" I like, and have one of the absolute easiest cocking RFBR actions ever.


    Right now it cocks about like a 52 Winchester, and the 52 Winchester doesn't full cock on the lifting of the bolt handle.


    This is all being made possible by .216" of firing pin travel, and the freest action I've ever worked with right out of the box.


    Your friend, Bill Calfee


    __________________________


    PS:

    This is blow your mind amazing.....

    I hope all the folks reading this fully comprehend what this means.


    There is no "pre-load" on the firing pin spring.......

    The spring is being compressed just .216", plus maybe .010", which is just enough to hold the components together.

    By the way, I can grab the bolt body with one hand, and the locking lugs with the other, and easily pull the two apart.


    And yet this action is so "free", that this spring is driving that big .050" footprint like this....

    _______________________


    Last edited by Bill Calfee; 1 Week Ago at 08:48 PM.

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