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Thread: Since we're discussing chambering........

  1. #1

    Since we're discussing chambering........

    Since we're discussing chambering........

    CYA friends:


    Since we're discussing chambering, there's an interesting little secret about why some of this late Lapua is kicking it so killer in fully engraved Eley chambers.


    Take the back to back 2400+ ARA aggs kicked out by Chuck "Deuces Wild" Morrell and Mike "Big Dog" Sherrill at the Barn a couple months ago..

    And then Tony "TDX" Harper's indoor three card 10-SHOT record of 366, which is probably going to stand for some time to come.

    And then Chuck "Deuces Wild" Morrell and is simply unbelievable 750 X 65X at the Triple Crown last year......outside!



    CYA friends, all of these monumental rimfire accuracy accomplishments were kicked out with late Lapua in fully engraved Eley chambers....

    I know this for a fact, since I cut and finished all of those chambers......




    The question is, why?...........Why is this late Lapua kicking it like it does, in fully engraved Eley chambers?




    Here's the interesting little secret as to why:



    First of all, maximum accuracy is extracted from match grade, 22 Long Rifle ammunition when it's used in fully engraved chambers....

    By fully engraved chambers, I mean, fully engraved less enough room for the CL to build up.




    Secondly, I'm going to tell something that any serious seeker of rimfire accuracy already knows:


    The late Lapua averages about .015" longer, from the head of the case to the front shoulder of the front driving band, than does Eley.

    (This "average" difference takes into account the variation in the working length of Eley, and, the slight difference in case lengths between the two.)


    Therefore, the late Lapua, when used in a fully engraved Eley chamber, has about .015" more support/alignment to the bullet, than does Eley.


    And here's the biggie.....the Lapua gains that additional support, while maintaining the "exact" same amount of CL room as does the Eley.



    ____________________


    CYA friends, today in trying to advance rimfire accuracy, a few thousandths worth of improvement is a step forward.


    That additional .015" of extra support/alignment that Lapua gains from being shot in a full-on Eley chamber, is causing some big numbers to be kicked out.



    _______________________


    Now, here's the rub for Eley:

    If one cut a chamber, for Eley, with the same support/alignment of Lapua, you wouldn't get half way through a card before the CL would start producing flippers...


    Your friend, Bill Calfee

    Last edited by Bill Calfee; 1 Week Ago at 09:04 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calfee View Post
    Since we're discussing chambering........

    CYA friends:


    Since we're discussing chambering, there's an interesting little secret about why some of this late Lapua is kicking it so killer in fully engraved Eley chambers.


    Take the back to back 2400+ ARA aggs kicked out by Chuck "Deuces Wild" Morrell and Mike "Big Dog" Sherrill at the Barn a couple months ago..

    And then Tony "TDX" Harper's indoor three card 10-SHOT record of 366, which is probably going to stand for some time to come.

    And then Chuck "Deuces Wild" Morrell and is simply unbelievable 750 X 65X at the Triple Crown last year......outside!



    CYA friends, all of these monumental rimfire accuracy accomplishments were kicked out with late Lapua in fully engraved Eley chambers....

    I know this for a fact, since I cut and finished all of those chambers......




    The question is, why?...........Why is this late Lapua kicking it like it does, in fully engraved Eley chambers?




    Here's the interesting little secret as to why:



    First of all, maximum accuracy is extracted from match grade, 22 Long Rifle ammunition when it's used in fully engraved chambers....

    By fully engraved chambers, I mean, fully engraved less enough room for the CL to build up.




    Secondly, I'm going to tell something that any serious seeker of rimfire accuracy already knows:


    The late Lapua averages about .015" longer, from the head of the case to the front shoulder of the front driving band, than does Eley.

    (This "average" difference takes into account the variation in the working length of Eley, and, the slight difference in case lengths between the two.)


    Therefore, the late Lapua, when used in a fully engraved Eley chamber, has about .015" more support/alignment to the bullet, than does Eley.


    And here's the biggie.....the Lapua gains that additional support, while maintaining the "exact" same amount of CL room as does the Eley.



    ____________________


    CYA friends, today in trying to advance rimfire accuracy, a few thousandths worth of improvement is a step forward.


    That additional .015" of extra support/alignment that Lapua gains from being shot in a full-on Eley chamber, is causing some big numbers to be kicked out.



    _______________________


    Now, here's the rub for Eley:

    If one cut a chamber, for Eley, with the same support/alignment of Lapua, you wouldn't get half way through a card before the CL would start producing flippers...


    Your friend, Bill Calfee

    Howdy Bill,
    Would it not stand to reason that an ammo company could lengthen the driving band and therefore improve accuracy, all other things being equal? Could the bullet shape be changed without affecting flight characteristics? Would a few extra grains of bullet weight really make a difference with the twist rates currently in use? Is there a reason bullets are 40 grains?

    I have wondered why it is that the shape of the bullet that is not even touching rifling is the way it is. Perhaps weight/length could be added to the driving band by removing it from the nose without causing problems.

    In other words.........why do we have the current bullet shape? Is it just because it has always been similar to what it currently is, with minor changes over the years?

    Sometimes questioning the status quo leads to advancements.

    Take care,

    Greg

  3. #3

    Friend 404tbang

    Quote Originally Posted by 404tbang View Post
    Howdy Bill,
    Would it not stand to reason that an ammo company could lengthen the driving band and therefore improve accuracy, all other things being equal? Could the bullet shape be changed without affecting flight characteristics? Would a few extra grains of bullet weight really make a difference with the twist rates currently in use? Is there a reason bullets are 40 grains?

    I have wondered why it is that the shape of the bullet that is not even touching rifling is the way it is. Perhaps weight/length could be added to the driving band by removing it from the nose without causing problems.

    In other words.........why do we have the current bullet shape? Is it just because it has always been similar to what it currently is, with minor changes over the years?

    Sometimes questioning the status quo leads to advancements.

    Take care,

    Greg

    ____________________________________


    Friend 404tbang:


    The 22 rimfire cartridge was invented back in the 1800's......


    Since there's millions of guns chambered for it, the ammo companies probably can't make too many changes...



    I don't see how the cartridge shoots as good as it does......with the bullet and the case the same diameter...........


    And then that crimped-in heel of the .224" diameter bullet that is forced through the crimp opening of about .200".......


    When that thin heel is forced through that crimp opening, it immediately expands from about .200" in diameter to chamber diameter of .225"....


    No wonder there's a CL problem, with that thin heel, half melted, slapping that leade after passing through the crimp.


    ________________________


    Greg, the biggest challenge for match 22 rimfire companies today, is quality of product.


    It's pretty tough for a rimfire ammo company who has 5 or 6 different working lengths in the same box, to compete with a company that keeps all the working lengths the same.


    Here's the really odd part......the ammo company with all the different working lengths in the same box, can actually produce the most accurate ammo, if they'd
    just put their mind to it.......



    Your friend, BC

    Last edited by Bill Calfee; 1 Week Ago at 04:26 AM.

  4. #4

    Thinking the same

    Howdy Bill,
    Would it not stand to reason that an ammo company could lengthen the driving band and therefore improve accuracy, all other things being equal? Could the bullet shape be changed without affecting flight characteristics? Would a few extra grains of bullet weight really make a difference with the twist rates currently in use? Is there a reason bullets are 40 grains?

    I have wondered why it is that the shape of the bullet that is not even touching rifling is the way it is. Perhaps weight/length could be added to the driving band by removing it from the nose without causing problems.

    In other words.........why do we have the current bullet shape? Is it just because it has always been similar to what it currently is, with minor changes over the years?

    Sometimes questioning the status quo leads to advancements.

    Take care,

    Greg


    Hi Greg

    I was just thinking exactly the same thing.

    Regards
    Graham

  5. #5

    Friends Deveng and 404tbang:

    Friends Deveng and 404tbang:



    "Sometimes questioning the status quo leads to advancements."


    I've spent the last 29 years questioning the status quo about every facet of rimfire accuracy.


    Since Eley produces so many different working lengths of their ammo, for years now I've begged, pleaded, hollered, and cussed, along with every other method I know to get their attention, for them to mark on the box the working length of the ammo inside it....


    If we can't get Eley to do a simple thing like this, how could we possibly get them to change the shape of their bullets?



    _________________________________


    If I could have three wishes, which would come true, about our ammo today, here's what they'd be.....in no particular order.



    1. For Eley to get back to what I will term, "their 2008'-2012' level of quality"...


    2. For Lapua to change to natural based wax...


    3. I want the percentage of influence of the primer in the combustion process, to be reduced by at least 75%.



    Your friend, BC
    Last edited by Bill Calfee; 6 Days Ago at 05:43 PM.

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