Try to get CF BR shooters to try also RF BR shooting.Next weekend is I.R.50/50 inside range competition to meters here and there is other "test competition" also.
Shooting 5 x 5 shots group competition to 50 meter.
Group shooting needs moving paper behind target and this is issue to many shooting ranges.
If you have good (cheap and simple) ideas to moving paper system,please tell!!! Pictures if possible.
Outside it should be rotating (need little wind) paper (with wing etc.)
BR, Timo
Originally Posted by Timo
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Friend Timo:
I wish I knew something about what the simplest and cheapest moving backer system might be.....
One of the last centerfire benchrest matches I competed in, used a small battery powered electric motor, which rotated a round piece of paper past the official bull....
I believe the round papers were graph charts, like used in monitoring devices....we used them in the Natural Gas industry to monitor line pressures.
At Borden we had a monster of a moving backer system....it worked perfect and never failed, but man it was a hassle to set up, then move to 200 yards for that stage of the shoot....
Maybe someone else here at CYA has an idea...
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Friend Timo, man I wish we could have some group shoots.....that's the way traditional benchrest shooting has always been held..
The moving backer issue is why we score shoot today.
Score shooting is fascinating too, don't get me wrong..
But, benchrest shooting has always been about improving the breed.....
Improving the breed (advancing rimfire accuracy) is the only reason CYankee Accuracy exists.....
And some of the RFBR games don't reflect the pure accuracy that benchrest shooting was originally conceived for.
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As things stand today, the best score game we have, that comes closes to simulating group shooting, is the new IR-50 game, 10-SHOT.
10-SHOT is the most demanding of all score shooting disciplines on the "pure accuracy" of the equipment.
I like this 10-SHOT game....I liked it from the first time I understood how it was scored.....it demands the absolute most accurate rimfire equipment possible.
It's interesting though, because 10-SHOT is the antithesis of regular IR-50 shooting.
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Not every RFBR shooter will like 10-SHOT, simply because it is so demanding on the pure accuracy of the equipment.
But, not everyone likes benchrest group shooting, centerfire or rimfire, for the same reason....this is why true benchrest shooting doesn't have the competitor numbers of other shooting sports.
Let us know the results of you group matches......
Your friend, Bill Calfee
Last edited by Bill Calfee; 01-09-2018 at 03:23 PM.
Hi Bill!
One of the last centerfire benchrest matches I competed in, used a small battery powered electric motor, which rotated a round piece of paper past the official bull....
I got few same style messages from our CFBR shooters.Need to make few prototypes which are easy to move from range to range.
We have had here very long time 3 x 10 shots RFBR competitions to 100 meter and many CFBR guys shoot this but VERY few of them has tried I.R.50/50.
RFBR to 100 m is mostly wind reading game.
My good friend won (3x10 shots to 100 meter) 3 / 4 this year and were 2nd in one.(CFBR shooter).He has not most accurate RF in this country.
This paper is strong evidence of his wind reading skills.(And we cant call him simple (stupid) because he is 2 times world champion.
BR, Timo
Jarin uudet tapetit.jpg
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Friend Timo:
Good luck with your moving backer system....
By the way, we're going to have a couple of days in the 60 degree range here.....
So I'll get to test my spearment some more.....
The first thing I'm going to do, is to shoot an IR-50 card and score it by the 10-SHOT method...
Timo, you need to try it.....
The next IR card you kick out, score it 10-SHOT, just out of curiosity....
This IR-50 10-SHOT has the potential to give folks the feel of group shooting, which is what benchrest shooting is really all about, without the need for moving backers.
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I'm anxious to see just what kind of 10-SHOT score my spearment can kick out.
Your friend, BC
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Here's the test target I kicked out with my spearment the last time I got to shoot it...
It's on the ARA card, which has a slightly larger dot, so it's a little more difficult to accurately translate it to the IR-50 target...
But, I believe there's 98 10-SHOT points in the 19 bulls I shot...
Plus, there's at least 20 points in the five shot group on the upper right sighter.....
That's 24 rounds, so let's assume my 25th round would also be a 4, then this card would be a 122, 10-SHOT score.
I don't believe any of the 19 rounds will make a 10-SHOT 10, nor any in the five shot sighter group, although it would be interesting to plug bulls 13 and 20, although I doubt they'd plug a 10.
Although, two or three in the five shot sighter group may make a 10-SHOT 6......which would increase the score accordingly.
I like this 10-SHOT game...
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Last edited by Bill Calfee; 01-10-2018 at 06:44 AM.
Man it's close to a 10
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Friend Timo:
I blew up that #20 bull.....
My target stand, which has been at the exact same location for years, sits slightly further rearward on the right side....
( You may be thinking, Calfee, why don't you straighten it up?..........that'd be a good question....)
Anyway, that #20 bull is close to a 10-SHOT 10......especially if one uses their imagination to add a little of the burn on the left side of the bullet hole.
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Man I'm cited.....
Two days of 60 degree weather....although it's a little windy right now...
I wish I had some more of this lot of Tom Wilkinson's Lapua test lots.....
Man that stuff matches this Muller modified 4-MI.....
Oh, before I forget....there's an interesting story about how I cut the chamber in this killer Muller.....
I've told it to the ole Hawk.....and he laughed....
I'll have to tell it sometime.........I thought I'd screwed up and was going to have to live with my leade engraving .007" shorter than I normally use.
But when I corrected my mistake, my leade engraving wound up exactly, to the thousandth, like I want it.....
By the way, this chamber is fully engraved, what I normally cut for Eley...
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Enough of that....
I've got two days away from the zero temps.......and I'm going to do some 22 rifle shootin'.....
Timo, I'm liking this IR-50 10-SHOT more and more......because it demonstrates pure rimfire accuracy, just like group shooting.
Your friend, BC
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Man that's close to a 10-SHOT 10........although it most likely wouldn't plug.
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Tapani Nousiainen won I.R.50/50 HV to meters 748/55 X.
Aappo Korpi won group competition.They change it 3 x 5 shots to 50 meters.Average groups were 0,206 ".
This shooting hall is tricky.Wood floor and if somebody is walking behind, you can see it on your scope.If you take air condition off then you get few times miracle.If you put air condition on ,then X:s are very hard to get.
But Top guys are Top guys in every circumstances.
BR, Timo
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Friend Timo:
.206" at meters is excellent....
That relates to about .180" at yards.........
It would have been kool if they would have shot 5 groups.....
.180" for 5 groups is really pretty stout at yards.......actually, it's double stout...
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See, it's not like a person shoots 25 or 30 groups, then picks out the best 5.......
In group shooting they measure every shot.....
I'll bet there's very few RFBR guns, anywhere, that a shooter could sit down at a registered group match and kick out 5, 5-shot groups that better .180"......at 50 yards.
Group shooting is humbling......real humbling.....
And I've got a feeling this new IR-50 10-SHOT is going to be real humbling too.
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It would be so nice if we could shoot groups in rimfire benchrest.....but that's a big hassle with the moving backer issue.
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Timo, for serious rimfire benchresters this Sunday at Piney Hill will be a watershed moment with the first ever, multi card 10-SHOT competition.
This 10-SHOT discipline is about as close as we can get to the accuracy of group shooting, by shooting for score.
What's fantastic about this 10-SHOT discipline, is you either cut an X, or you get no score.
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Timo, you folks need to try this 10-SHOT thing........
It's shot on the standard IR-50 target.....using the 10-SHOT scoring......
Your friend, BC
Last edited by Bill Calfee; 01-19-2018 at 02:38 PM.
Bill!
Can you explain this 10-X scoring system to me.Is it so that if you get dot totally off you get 10 points?
I like to tell about 10-X system also here!!!
BR, Timo
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Friend Timo:
10-SHOT is fired on the standard IR-50, 25 bull target.
The first rule is this: If you don't hit the dot, you score zero for that bull.
If the shot touches the dot, you score 4 points.
If the shot "wipes out" the dot, you score 6 points.
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To score a 10, the shot has to be so perfectly centered, that no white is visible around the scoring plug...
In other words, the plug touches the 10 ring all the way around.
Timo, we do not have accuracy capability for shooting 10's.........
So a 10 is simply a matter of luck.....
But having said that, the more accurate you are, the better the chance for catching a 10, of course.
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By the way, Tony said he thought there was only one 10 fired at the match Sunday.
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Timo, 10-SHOT is really a game of 6's........wipe out X's.........that's the goal.
A "realistic" perfect 10-SHOT card would be twenty-five 6's.......or 150 points.
Now, here's how cruel 10-SHOT could be, hypothetically:
If you kicked out a 250X25X card, but none of the X's were wipe outs, your score would be 100......
A 100 won't draw you a smell.......
Now that's cruel.....but it's so kool.
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The absolute koolest thing about 10-SHOT is this: If you don't touch that dot, you get nothing.
This is rimfire accuracy in its purest, and most demanding form.
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I like it.
As a matter of fact, I like it so much that it's got me cited again about spearmentin'.....
I want a CYankee to produce the first 150, 10-SHOT score.
A CYankee, TKH, was the first to go over 360 for three cards........( I didn't think it possible for a 360 the first time out)
And now I want a CYankee to be the first to go 600 at a 10-SHOT National, which is five cards.......( which is coming up in February)
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I'm cited......I've got an unlapped blank, like the Muller non-trick 4-MI that's on my latest spearment......and that thing is stout..
The cogs are already turning as to how I'm going to lap this Muller......
I've decided one thing for sure, it will be as long as I can make it......hopefully at least 27 inches.....
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One last thing Timo, this 10-SHOT discipline is humbling.......
I've got a nice 250 x 17X, shot outdoors, that only grades 80 for 10-SHOT.
Mike Mullins's ARA World Record 2500 target only grades 100, scored for 10-SHOT....
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Timo, you guys have got to give this thing a try......
Your friend, BC
Last edited by Bill Calfee; 01-23-2018 at 07:51 AM.
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